tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post7696912817692821050..comments2023-08-10T07:18:16.879-04:00Comments on Borrowed Light: Shocking Barna StatisticAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08034192017775511612noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-88367118705034134602012-06-15T07:44:12.528-04:002012-06-15T07:44:12.528-04:00Mike, perhaps you have your own bias ? I don't...Mike, perhaps you have your own bias ? I don't think describing him as having an "anti-church" bias is accurate. He may not see the church in the same way you do, I do believe he none the less does love the Body of Christ, however you define it. I am curious if you made any attempt to contact George Barna to discuss his personally held beliefs regarding the Church ? He is a brother in Christ, and deserves the respect of that position. Rather than making assumptions, which clearly are faulty at best (i.e. As mentioned above, Mr.Barna does not own the polling company any more.) <br /> Perhaps knowing about your "bad" research your readers should also be a little skeptical of your writing as well ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-50654123593112089302012-06-14T14:38:37.829-04:002012-06-14T14:38:37.829-04:00I've done quite a bit of study on this, readin...I've done quite a bit of study on this, reading sociology articles and books, etc., and it seems to me that at least one problem with many of the statistics, and many of the books that look at attendance trends and such in churches, (often offering many different solutions) is that they tend to have too tight a focus with their polling. It is polling about "religious" people and it focuses on "religious" involvement, etc. But there is a larger social picture, there are larger social trends, that are going on in the culture as a whole in relation to people's involvement with ANY type of volunteer or benevolent organizations. From what I've been able to find, churches are not "shrinking" or "growing" in any way distinct from other "volunteer" groups in our society. Churches don't seem to have any inordinate shrinkage due to any particular failings of the church, though if you read enough books, you will keep finding people who will state statistics which show the church is "shrinking" and they will tell you why they think it's happening and what they think you should do about it. But it is a cultural reality that people are becoming more and more isolated and less and less involved in ALL "public" institutions that require an actual physical presence. It's not strictly a church phenomenon and so it doesn't really help to treat it as if it is.OneBigHappyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07993848597406708478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-17059120381342478012012-06-14T13:15:52.796-04:002012-06-14T13:15:52.796-04:00Mike, I hear you and empathize with your frustrati...Mike, I hear you and empathize with your frustrations about research methods and interpretations. Lord knows I took it up as a challenge in 2005 re Barna/Sider 'Divorced' research -- see my blog post back then... http://gotchange.blogspot.com/2005/06/transforming-evangelical-meme.html<br /><br />But let me encourage you to give these reputable brothers a little more grace. Or better yet, a lot more grace. After all, consider how much grace Christ has given each of us, and that He teaches us to become more & more Christ-like.<br /><br />In this case, we should be particularly thankful that Barna Research has led the way regarding FAITH-based surveys --> definitions of 'evangelical'... rather than following secular researchers and basing everything on (self-described) 'notional' evangelicals.<br /><br />That said, I too would like to see more of Barna's data offered for 'vetting'.<br /><br />P.S... Dig deep. You'll find Barna's stats reveal that there's a growing percentage of Evangelicals in the U.S. today. And yet surely NONE of us are content with the American 'Church's effectiveness today. Let's indeed revisit what scripture calls us to be -- a seamless, multicultural tapestry of Jesus-is-LORD set of believers in a city... granularly down to the home-church level.IndyChristianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05055017538708472750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-60624265952948451462012-06-14T11:43:30.243-04:002012-06-14T11:43:30.243-04:00Just to be clear. I don't believe for one sec...Just to be clear. I don't believe for one second that "the church is not working". You won't find any disagreement with me in your first point. <br /><br />Obviously, we'll disagree on your second beef with the article concerning Barna. We could probably chat about that one all day. <br /><br />Thanks for your comment.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08034192017775511612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-84635550447350020102012-06-14T11:39:38.649-04:002012-06-14T11:39:38.649-04:00Michael,
Thanks for pointing this out. I appreci...Michael,<br /><br />Thanks for pointing this out. I appreciate it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08034192017775511612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-39094996462282723322012-06-14T11:14:19.082-04:002012-06-14T11:14:19.082-04:00Several things make me uncomfortable with this art...Several things make me uncomfortable with this article. First, no matter WHAT the statistics reveal, i would not say that "the church is not working." The church is working just fine, thanks! What "the church" means is simply this: God's people all around the world, called out from the kingdom of Satan and serving in the Kingdom of the Most High, having been redeemed by the blood of Jesus. The church is God's people, not some organizational model! If all the "church buildings" were to be firebombed overnight by terrorists, the church would not be in any way affected... the church has nothing to do with those buildings! Those are just settings in which religious activity takes place. <br /><br />Second, George Barna is not "anti-church." That's a libelous and ridiculous thing to say about a brother in Christ! He is one of the most pro-church people i've ever read, assuming a correct understanding of what the word "church" actually means, and i find his books extremely refreshing! I am involved in a small church that meets in homes myself, and it seems painfully obvious to me that it's the institutional model, with its origins in the Roman Catholicism of late antiquity and the early middle ages, that needs to defend itself against the plain teachings of God's New Testament, not the other way around!David Kennedy Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17668435581621389489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-9227001322255897722012-06-14T11:05:59.596-04:002012-06-14T11:05:59.596-04:00Thank you Mike Leake for saying what I've been...Thank you Mike Leake for saying what I've been thinking for many years. Yes, yes, yes.Daniel Darlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08236437959711805865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-78028101380413004702012-06-14T09:59:07.499-04:002012-06-14T09:59:07.499-04:00Barna isn't owned by George Barna anymore, it&...Barna isn't owned by George Barna anymore, it's owned and run by David Kinnaman; he bought George out a few years ago. So the "He" in your post may have been true back then, but George Barna no longer drives or breathes into the company. So you could argue that David and everyone else at Barna Research have the same agenda pushing their research, but the "He" argument is no longer accurate.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-348789832101660332012-06-14T08:26:43.372-04:002012-06-14T08:26:43.372-04:00Back in the day when all Barna did was publish res...Back in the day when all Barna did was publish research findings it was pretty good. Then he decided to interpret the findings and I often found his interpretations very different than my own. While it is true that stats don't lie, they can be spun in a context to make them look the opposite of what they really mean.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-61551807206307660652012-06-13T16:56:55.357-04:002012-06-13T16:56:55.357-04:00Maybe, yes. x2Maybe, yes. x2Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08034192017775511612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-89875567600580266822012-06-13T16:56:34.703-04:002012-06-13T16:56:34.703-04:00Thank ya sir!Thank ya sir!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08034192017775511612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-41237022248370637212012-06-13T12:58:33.011-04:002012-06-13T12:58:33.011-04:00This is another entry in the category, "Why M...This is another entry in the category, "Why Mike Leake will one day be at the top of the Blogging heap."Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563948728142405444.post-18332354125074848072012-06-13T12:14:41.718-04:002012-06-13T12:14:41.718-04:00(1) Do you think Barna has a "profit" m...(1) Do you think Barna has a "profit" motive?<br /><br />(2) What is the theological background of George Barna? Does he have an axe to grind?Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.com